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  1. #131

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    This may have been discussed on the other 13 pages, but how is what these guys do any different than big sites like Fantasy Alarm/Fantasy Guru Elite providing optimized lineups? Or really any site for that matter.

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    Hi DK last week we showed you how one of us covered beal so the other could play all the other SG. Well since you don't want to stop us we decided last night that one of us would play westbrrok 100% and one of us would play westbrook 0%, one of us would play Davis or Towns 66% while the other would play one of them 2%. But we somehow also cam to the conclusion to play anthony and prozingis >88% of the time.

    For reference there were 155 max entry guys including us, of them 9% had a complete fade of westbrook, but of those other 13 (mazwa/ragingphillp being one except the one who didnt complete fade only had 1% of westbrook) none have the history that we do of same core with one/two player swaps/fades.



    Quote Originally Posted by mphst18 View Post
    From a few nights ago but lineup construction in NBA is always to similar to be independent.

    Hi DK is ok if I cover Beal while my teamate spreads out across other SGs so we can have 300 entries.

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    Please forgive me if i am not following your question correctly but two me they are two seperate issues:

    1. Is colluding with one or more other people to obtain more than the max allowed of entries which optimizers can play a role in but as seen a combo of some "poorly constructed" optimizers and "lazy" players can create duplicate lus by the same player as it can't detect an identical lineup with players in different positions and the player or players don't have the know how on how to check and just uploads the 150 or 300 or 450 or .... it spits out.

    2. The issue that people are just buying the "optimal (this is an overused and incorrect word as optimal is only decided by the outcome not some moron like Tommy G's projections) lu from one of the sites and entering it hurts the sites Skill argument. DK tried to offer up some lip service that they would prevent this, in which they asked RG and Fantasy Labs to change their optimizer to make users have to input at least two variables" to which the sites complied (Many others don't nor do they have to). My guess here is RG and FL complied as they didn't want to upset the apple cart which provides a lot of incentives to them to stay in line.

    Concerning was when a top exec at DK when shown proof Fantasay Elite was willing to send "Optimal LU" to people on Twitter his response was well their platform coveres many sites so not sure it would be a DK LU. IMO the response would be more of hey Tommy no more playing on DK for you, or we don't want to do business with someone who is willing to do this.

    Again apologies if this isn't what you were referencing, I was not sure.





    Quote Originally Posted by leetch1940 View Post
    This may have been discussed on the other 13 pages, but how is what these guys do any different than big sites like Fantasy Alarm/Fantasy Guru Elite providing optimized lineups? Or really any site for that matter.
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  4. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by mphst18 View Post
    Please forgive me if i am not following your question correctly but two me they are two seperate issues:

    1. Is colluding with one or more other people to obtain more than the max allowed of entries which optimizers can play a role in but as seen a combo of some "poorly constructed" optimizers and "lazy" players can create duplicate lus by the same player as it can't detect an identical lineup with players in different positions and the player or players don't have the know how on how to check and just uploads the 150 or 300 or 450 or .... it spits out.

    2. The issue that people are just buying the "optimal (this is an overused and incorrect word as optimal is only decided by the outcome not some moron like Tommy G's projections) lu from one of the sites and entering it hurts the sites Skill argument. DK tried to offer up some lip service that they would prevent this, in which they asked RG and Fantasy Labs to change their optimizer to make users have to input at least two variables" to which the sites complied (Many others don't nor do they have to). My guess here is RG and FL complied as they didn't want to upset the apple cart which provides a lot of incentives to them to stay in line.

    Concerning was when a top exec at DK when shown proof Fantasay Elite was willing to send "Optimal LU" to people on Twitter his response was well their platform coveres many sites so not sure it would be a DK LU. IMO the response would be more of hey Tommy no more playing on DK for you, or we don't want to do business with someone who is willing to do this.

    Again apologies if this isn't what you were referencing, I was not sure.



    Honestly, I don't want to see either in the industry. But if I had to choose, I'd rather see 2 guys colluding to circumvent the max entry rule than sites giving out optimized lineups. You're talking about 300 lineups vs. thousands depending on subscriptions.

  5. #135
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    That's a fair viewpoint. From the other side I wouldn't dismiss though that I would rather compete against a thousand Tommy G given out Lus or that of any other "not good" subscription service than 300 of DAUT/MIR Lus in NBA.

    Either way when a subscription service is openly saying here I will give you a Lu I would expect a much better response from the site then well his site covers 5 different platforms so nothing for us to be concerned about or take not of here.

  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by mphst18 View Post

    Either way when a subscription service is openly saying here I will give you a Lu I would expect a much better response from the site then well his site covers 5 different platforms so nothing for us to be concerned about or take not of here.
    Agree 100%

    That's a horrible response.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mphst18 View Post
    That's a fair viewpoint. From the other side I wouldn't dismiss though that I would rather compete against a thousand Tommy G given out Lus or that of any other "not good" subscription service than 300 of DAUT/MIR Lus in NBA.

    Either way when a subscription service is openly saying here I will give you a Lu I would expect a much better response from the site then well his site covers 5 different platforms so nothing for us to be concerned about or take not of here.
    Wow. Why would he ever think that's a good/smart response?
    @RealestChrisKay --- RIP DFS CFB

  8. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by RealestChrisKay View Post
    Wow. Why would he ever think that's a good/smart response?
    While I have seen that there are some extremely intelligent people in prominent positions in the industry, I've also seen the complete opposite. Maybe he was having a trump moment.

  9. #139
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    I don't have any issue with services giving out "optimal lineups" as they are optimal based on the criteria used to build said lineups. Obviously different lineup generator systems are all going to weight certain things more than others so the lineups are all going to differ. I would agree the "true optimal lineup" is obviously not going to be known until after the contest concludes but i think they do serve a purpose to at least show the train of thought of the service providing it. Now. I would never just blindly use these lineups and numerous sites like fantasy alarm will tell you not to just use the lineup but rather use them as a tool in your research.

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    Apparently others have reported the chess_is_ok/Dr/karl syndicate which included more people but DK again decided to let them keep playing minus a few accounts.

    So far the only things in common with enforcemtn are below:

    If you are caught colluding but play a lot you will not be restricted - see DAUT/MIR, PG/CA, AEJONES/KUNU88/WZDRICH/THEROBBOB,

    If you are caught basterdizing the referral bonus which steals money from DK not from other players and you don't play much volume - You will be restricted from playing.

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